It was a cool but sunny afternoon in May, Tshibola sat opposite me surveying the menu at Natak. They’d never had Indian food before and wasn’t sure what to order. I was meant to recommend something, but there were a number of things I’d never had on the menu, so we both ended up trying something new. Tshibola has been my friend for a number of years and in that time she has always been a great orator and academic. Meeting one another at the cusp of adulthood has given us the opportunity to watch one another’s lives and identities be shaped and reshaped, as we grappled with getting to know who we are. I was grateful Tshibola agreed to be interviewed by me, and talk about their gender identity, and gender diverse communities from a non-Western perspective.
So yeah, please introduce yourself.
“Okay, my name is Tshibola, I’m 25 and in terms of pronouns, anything goes, just mix it up. In terms of how I identify sometimes I think I’m certain, sometimes I’m not, but currently just let’s just say pending because I think I’m still trying to figure out myself and explore myself. I think I’ve got to a point where I realize I think much of my gender identity sexuality is linked to past traumas. So, whilst I work through those, it’s pending.”
How are third gender iedntities different to being non-binary?
“I think we should start with a critique of non-binary. Obviously, there’s nothing wrong with being non-binary; it’s valid and no one can tell you how to identify. But, I think what people need to understand that is non-binary is a Westerner gender. A lot of people comment on how the category of non-binary sometimes feels restricted, and very white in its definition. And the reason is because it’s a Western gender. Just because it’s not man or woman, doesn’t make it any less Western.This doesn’t mean that Black, Asian, or any other racialised individual can’t identify as such, but I think people just need to keep in mind that it’s a Western gender. Then comes my issue with comments like, “there have always been non-binary people around the world”, which is not true because again, non-binary is a Western gender. But when people run with that, they’re analysing and viewing gender through a Western lens.
This is also the reason why I have an issue with Western queer theory and theorists. I don’t think queer theorists and those who use queer theory as part of their activism properly interrogate their role in imperialism. With queer imperialism, it’s not just about exporting Western gender and LGBT discourses, it’s about marginalising and disregarding non-western methodologies and technologies. If you want to understand non-Western genders, how are you going to do that through a Western lens? Westerners – which includes non-white Westerners – are guilty of positioning themselves as experts, in order to become knowledge keepers. When there are people outside the West actually doing the work. And while people outside the West do identify as non-binary, but we have to be honest about the reason why. It’s the result of colonialism.”
So, how did you first learn about third gender identities outside of the West?
“I first started learning about it when I got interested in my own history and the history of my ethnic group. So I’m Luba of Kasai origin, and the thing about my ethnic group is that we are stereotyped as the most patriarchal ethnic group in Congo. This bothers me, not because our culture doesn’t have an issue of patriarchy, we definitely do just like any other culture, but my problem is us being stereotyped as exceptionally patriarchal. People get away with saying that because Luba people are very hypervisible, we are also referred to as demulu (vantard), meaning arrogant and boastful. Stereotypes are dangerous, and not always just stereotypes, they’ve become political dog-whistle. In the 90s, pro-Mobutu politicians started anti-Kasaian campaigns, their target was mainly Luba of Kasai origin, but then extended to all Kasians.The anti-Kasaian propaganda incited people to attack Kasaians on the streets, Kasaians were expelled and systematically killed while President Mobutu watched.
This is what got me to investigate my own history more, and it led me to my dissertation topic, which was an investigation into how the policies and ideologies of Authenticité shaped the learning experiences of women and girls in the Republic of Zaire. While doing my literature review, I had to read colonial policies and it’s just helped me understand just how much gender has been manipulated. For example, the nuclear family was presented as the legitimate family,that it’s “natural”. But controlling ideas about family structures were used to manipulate gender relations and reconstruct gender identities. That’s how it all started and the more you read the more you find out.”
To those who engage in bad faith discussions about misogyny in Luba culture and communities, I suggest they start being honest about misogyny and the role of patriarchy in their cultures. I also recommend they read, Sexist and Antisexist Trends in African Traditional Religions by Congolese scholar Mutombo Nkulu-N’senga.”
Tell me about the history of third gender identities and communities in Congo.
“Broadly speaking, many intersex conditions were third gender categories. But there weren’t defined third gender categories either. Pre-colonial Luba societies’ notions of gender were usually blurred. The best way to understand this is by looking at Luba religion, because it is where you find the most ambiguity when it comes to gender.
The Luba are an ethnolinguistic group, connected through language, shared histories and cultures. Luba is also a postcolonial identity, which means there are always debates about who is and who is not truly Luba and who are the originals. In some societies you had a person known as the Mwadi/Muadi (pronounced mwa-ji). They were a person who was born a woman, and later in life the spirit of a king/chief entered their body, and from there on they lived their life in between womanhood and manhood. They played a distinct role in Luba political and social life. They were even able to have wives of their own. As they were incarnations of divine spirits, which were usually men, even though women chiefs have always existed, they transcended gender. The late scholar, Mary Nooter Roberts, spoke about the role of the Muadi in great detail. While I appreciate her work, finding out that she underwent a Luba initiation to gain access to the community made me very uncomfortable. It is another example of white people infiltrating communities
The Luba creation story is also quite interesting. According to the Congolese scholar V.Y. Mudimbe , God made each of all created things hermaphrodite, from plants to people. In the Luba religion, God is not clearly gendered. The proper name for God is Maweja (pronounced ma-way-ja) or Maweja Nangila, which refers to a creator, but is not a gendered term. God is also known as Tshama (pronounced cha-ma), which means Mother God and is a gendered term, but does not necessarily refer to a woman. Tshama is also Maweja, so both terms refer to one being, but they are distinct. Because Tshiluba (Cilubà) and Kiluba are Bantu languages there is no grammatical gender. But this is not the same as the the laguage being gender neutral or genderless, because the languages are still gendered in other ways.
Hermaphrodite is usually used to referred to medialised sex, and possession of both reproductive organs. Whereas in this context it refers to all things being created one, but still distinct.
In a lot of Congolese gospel music they use the phrase ‘Maweja wa Tshama’ which means Maweja child of God/ Tshama. While there is nothing wrong with religious syncretism and no religion is free of it, the issue when Christians use this phrase is that they’re not using it in the same way as those who practice the traditional religion would, because it would be blasphemy. The only mother of God is Mary, and Mary is not Tshama. When used in the context of Christian gospel, it strips away it’s history and meaning, and prevents us from having an understanding of gender outside of Western hetro-patriarchy.
Even when I was explaining this to you, I got confused myself, because gender is not simple content. Like I said before, with queer theory, there is an obsession to understand things through a Western framework. But how would you understand the concept of Maweja or Tshama within a Christian framework? Doing so marginalises and disregards the non-Western methodologies and technologies.”
Do you feel seen by the LGBTQI+ community in the UK?
“No, I don’t feel seen or included by the LGBTQI+ community in the UK, but I don’t mind that I am not seen. I don’t mind existing in the margins because when you try to discuss something outside of Western understanding, you’re met with resistance. For example, I’ve said many times I don’t feel comfortable with the labels like non-binary and queer. But people quickly forget and refer to me as queer or non-binary anyways. When I say there have always been other genders outside of the West people automatically assume non-binary, but thats not what I was talking about. You don’t always need to articulate things within a Western framework.
Another reason I don’t feel I fit in with the wider LGBT community is because of the Western obsession with taxonomizing and categorising everything, including gender. Sometimes genders cannot be articulated with words, sometimes we just need to be. But here in the West, if you cannot verbalise it, it’s not real. We don’t let people just experience gender without having to name it. I know I’ve named what I think I am, but I’m still trying to figure it out, and I might never figure it out. Like with Maweja it’s so difficult to understand but you don’t have to. You could talk about it for like 20 years and still never understand.
To me the “community” doesn’t really exist. We all form our own communities, but there isn’t this big LGBTQ+ community, which we’re all part of and feel safe in.”
How do we support gender diverse communities?
“Open your f***ing purse. Especially if you’re white LGBTQ person, why are you talking? Give us your money.
Some people need to sit down with themselves and ask, how is the work I’m doing useful and helpful? Because I don’t think it is most of the time. There’s a thing of always trying to prove that we have always existed, but I don’t think that is helpful. Who are you proving that to? Who are you seeking approval from? I think what we should focus on is people’s material conditions. If we think about how people’s genders affect how they move and navigate the world, and the barriers they face, it’s clear there are many financial barriers. Third genders, as well as other marginalized genders and gender diverse people, especially outside the West, tend to be in sex work. I am not anti-sex work and I do believe that sex work is legitimate work, but it can be dangerous because they face so much violence in general. Additionally, sex wsork is not a high wage industry. I think finding ways to support these people materially is better than reading for hours on end to try and prove to cisgender people that you’ve always existed. Our efforts should be spent on supporting trans people, especially trans women, third genders, gender diverse people and queer people.
Also, people donate to these organizations, but I’ve been in a charity and your money is being wasted… When it comes to donating to people directly, I feel like there is a lack of compassion. People only want to donate if a campaign focuses on a person’s trauma. That’s the reason why poverty porn is so popular among charities. Just give directly to the people who are asking for help. What if they spend it on drugs? The charity workers are sniffing coke too, don’t worry. ”
Our afternoon ended in the evening and I was full of food, knowledge and joy. I had a new appreciation for the meaning of fluid, and greater acceptance of the fact that even what I cannot explain is still real. The goal of this interview was to help people understand third gender communities outside of a Western lens and in a decolonised context. But, that might not actually be possible. In cultures where gender is not fixed and cannot be categorised, how can I truly capture that essence? I can’t. But it’s okay, because I don’t have to. There are countless scholars outside the West who have already done the work, so read their writing and listen to their voices. And if you want to support third gender communities outside of the rainbow capitalism, open your purse to those asking for help.
Izzie
The Powder Room 